BELLE — Belle Mayor James (Pudd) Mitchell said on Friday afternoon that he would not answer whether Alderman Rebecca Withouse would be allowed to review ordinances, read through the most recent audit report, or put updates on the marshal’s pay, audits, or live broadcasting on the May 13 agenda.

“You have no authority except to vote, and that’s it,” Mitchell told Withouse on May 9 when she requested to view camera footage from the day before to prove she hadn’t caused a disturbance. However, the cameras at City Hall, Mitchell said, haven’t worked since December 2023.

Withouse and resident Tracey Cresswell attempted to visit Belle City Hall on May 8 and review the city’s uncodified ordinances when both women say Alderman Steve Vogt asked Cresswell to leave and scolded Withouse for bringing someone into the workspace.

Withouse immediately began recording the incident as Cresswell left the premises. A copy of the recording is available at www.mariescountyadvocate.com.

A notice posted on the side door at City Hall says that aldermen are allowed to be in the workspace area, which Withouse points out to Vogt in the video of the conversation. She asks Vogt to show her the ordinance or policy that says otherwise; however, nothing was produced.

During the course of the conversation, Withouse greeted Marshal Jerry Coborn, who later confirmed that he received a phone call from Mitchell, who was not at City Hall.

“Pudd called to say there might be an altercation at City Hall,” Coborn said after the incident. “It was civil when I got there, so I just went about my business. Rebecca and Steve were outside talking.”

When asked on May 9 how he heard about the incident at City Hall, Mitchell said he received calls from unnamed citizens that Withouse was “screaming and hollering.” The May 8 video and audio don’t indicate raised voices.

“I’ve had citizens call me complainin’,” Mitchell claims. “They come in here to pay a bill. They called complainin’ about you screamin’ and hollerin’ and carryin’ on.”

“I wasn’t screaming and hollering—,” Withouse began, but Mitchell interrupted.

“They distinctly said your name,” Mitchell countered.

Withouse said okay, but she wasn’t screaming and hollering.

“We’re not gonna have it,” Mitchell said. “We haven’t had a problem since a year and a half ago or whatever. There’s been no screamin’ and hollerin’ and carryin’ on, there’s been no fightin’ amongst the council. Nothin’. Now, all of a sudden, we’ve got turmoil. I know you say this is a new Becca and blah, blah, blah, blah.”

“No, it’s the same Becca that’s askin’ for transparency,” she said. “But I’m definitely trying to be more respectful of the office and making sure I’m following the rules. That’s why I told Steve, if you can show me the ordinance or the written policy, I have no problem following it. We had the conversation in your office about respecting the closed session. I’ve assured you that I will. I gave them a heads up when I was going to come look at the ordinances. I told them Monday, Tuesday in advance. I’ve tried very hard to be respectful. I was not screaming and hollering.”

Withouse asked for clarification from Mitchell regarding her attempts to research her list and review the city’s ordinance book, which is a public document. Could she bring someone with her and sit in the lobby?

“Is that going to be acceptable, if I have them sit out here? Because I was told that was the problem, that they were behind the glass and that’s not allowed,” she began. “And I wanted to ask if you know of a written policy or ordinance that shows that.”

Withouse said she didn’t want to break any rules, though a sign on the door at City Hall said aldermen are allowed in the work area, and city employees meeting with other individuals can authorize others to be in the workspace.

Mitchell said they stopped allowing people in the back because of confidentiality. However, Cresswell posted pictures online from May 8 claiming former alderman Barbara Howarth was in the workspace area printing business licenses and utilizing a city computer.

“I won’t answer that until after the council meeting Tuesday night; we’ll all hash it out Tuesday night (about the policies and ordinances),” Mitchell said about Withouse’s request to view the ordinances with help.

Withouse said if the board passes the ordinances and citizens are expected to follow them, they need to be available to the public.

“Not everybody has copies of the new ones; some of them have been repealed. It’s just trying to make sure —,” Whithouse began.

“They’re not in the codebook yet either,” Mitchell interrupted. “The codebook is so far behind it isn’t funny. They’re in the codebook, but they’re not in the book. They’re not entered into the book. The ordinances are enforced. They passed.”

Whithouse said she’s concerned how citizens are supposed to know about them.

“I don’t know,” Mitchell said. “I mean, our ordinances are online. You can go online and get ‘em.”

Withouse reiterated that up to 2021 is available online.

When asked where the new ordinances are kept, Mitchell said in the back of the codified ordinance book.

When asked how he heard about the May 8 incident, Mitchell said, “I just heard about it. It’s a bad deal. I ain’t gonna lie.”

Withouse said she is fine with following any rules that are written down, as long as it’s fair.

“That’s what I told Steve (Vogt),” she continued. “If it’s written down in a rule book, I’ve followed every rule.”

“Not everything is written down in a rule book,” Mitchell interrupted. “A lot of it goes back to this and this.”

Withouse said she understands, but if she doesn’t know that, she can’t follow it.

“It’s not fair when other aldremen are seen—,” Withouse began.

Mitchell said Cresswell knew not to come into the back of the building.

“She was here before when she ran for mayor, and I told her she couldn’t come back no more unless she sits out here (in the lobby) as long as she wanted to,” Mitchell said.

“You just said she could sit out here if she wanted to,” Withouse began. “That means if I wanted to come back and look at the ordinances again, she can sit out here and look at the ordinances.”

Mitchell said yes.

“Because you said you didn’t want to answer that ‘till Tuesday,” Withouse finished.

“I thought you meant you,” Mitchell said to Withouse.

“Why can’t I come back and look at the ordinances as an alderman?” Withouse asked.

“I don’t know, we’ll find out Tuesday,” Mitchell said. “The whole council’s going to sit down and we’ll find out Tuesday.”

Withouse asked if Mitchell would allow the items she requested to be put on the agenda to stay. He said he wouldn’t approve the guests Withouse invited because of time constraints.

“The girls are not invited. They are welcome to come, sign up and talk,” Mitchell said.

Withouse asked why the two girls who wanted to be on the agenda couldn’t be invited guests.

“I’m just not doing it,” Mitchell said. “Mostly invited guests are for engineers and stuff like that. You’re gonna find out, these meetin’s drag on forever. Regular meeting gets over at 8 p.m. and we don’t get out until 10-10:30 p.m., so., we’re just trying to cut ‘em back. The girls are welcome to come, say their spiel. I’m not going to guarantee we are going to answer anything. Not at all.”

“What about the audit that I asked to be put on?” Withouse asked.

“What are you looking for?” Mitchell asked. “First of all, the council’s got to approve for you to read all of that.”

“For me to read the audit paperwork?” Withouse asked.

“You’ve got to make a motion and the council’s got to approve it,” Mitchell said. “The council’s got to approve it and it can’t leave this building. Cannot be no pictures took of it.”

The city’s audits are public information, available through Sunshine Law, and are generally presented during open session meetings when first delivered.

“The last I heard about the audit was in August 2024, it was that we didn’t have a regular contract plan, and we wanted to send out for bids,” Withouse said. “I wanted to talk about where we were with the state of the bids, if we had submitted for bids.”

Mitchell said the same auditor who was doing the audits, Kristen DeLuca, is doing the audits.

“The last time I talked to an alderman in 2024, I was told we have to send out for bids, but then there was never any reading for bids or accepting for bids, and that’s what I want to know,” Withouse asked. “Do we have an official bid, are we caught up, are we good?”

Mitchell said DeLuca is working on the audits.

The audit was not on the May 13 agenda, which was posted at 3:42 p.m. on May 12.

“And then the city website, I wanted to talk about updating that, things I’d like to see added, broadcasting and all that,” she continued. “And the marshal’s pay. You guys have been saying for years that you want to do something about that and I wanted to add that. Are those getting to stay, or are you removing them?”

Mitchell said the marshal’s pay can be discussed in public because it is a public office. The street commissioner position has to be in closed session.

Withouse asked Mitchell for clarification about having to be approved to research and conduct city business.

“Even though I’m a current alderman, other aldermen have to approve for me to look at the audit paperwork?” Withouse asked.

“Yep,” Mitchell said.

“Have the other aldermen seen the audit paperwork?” she asked.

“Not unless it was presented to us,” Mitchell said.

“I guess I’m going to flat-outright ask,” Withouse said. “Are you trying to limit my access to things up here, because other aldermen can come and do things and you flat, outright told me I couldn’t.”

“We’ll discuss that Tuesday night,” Mitchell said. “There’s a lot gonna be discussed Tuesday night. Everything that went on here yesterday (May 8) was outta control. It’s a good thing I wasn’t in town yesterday.”

The Advocate asked Mitchell what he would have done if he was in town on May 8.

“It would have been a lot different,” Mitchell said.

Withouse said she and Vogt went outside to have a conversation, apologized for the disturbance and then she left when they locked the doors. A video of the May 8 conversation is available on The Advocate’s website. City employees, including Burkholder and Charro Reasor, city treasurer and office manager, closed the building as Withouse was discussing the issues with Vogt. On the video, she apologized to both Reasor and Burkholder before everyone left.

“I feel threatened,” Withouse told Mitchell on Friday. “I feel threatened yet again. I feel that you guys are violating rights that I have. I was elected.”

Of the items Withouse requested to be put on the agenda, the line that simply says discussion: “city marshal” under new business may or may not have been about Coborn’s salary.

A full audio of the May 9 conversation is also available at www.mariescountyadvocate.com.

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Belle Mayor James (Pudd) Mitchell spoke briefly with Alderman Rebecca Withouse and The Advocate on May 9 regarding an incident that occurred on May 8 at City Hall. A link to the May 8 recording of the conversation is available below.

Mitchell said he didn’t plan to answer Withouse’s questions about the incident until everything could be “hashed out” at the May 13 city meeting with the full board. He also insinuated that Withouse would not be welcome to conduct research at City Hall, and aside from being an alderman with a vote, she had no authority. He indicated that any concerns Withouse wanted on the agenda would have to be approved by the board and in order to see the city’s audit reports, the board would have to approve that.

Withouse, sworn into office on April 22, shared her intention to visit City Hall on May 8 with Clerk Sherree Burkholder earlier in the week. She arrived around noon with community member Tracey Cresswell to review uncodified city ordinances. Shortly after the two arrived at City Hall, Alderman Steve Vogt arrived, allegedly told Cresswell she needed to leave the building and Withouse that she wasn’t allowed to take people to the conference table.

Cresswell confirmed Vogt told her to leave and that she did so immediately. Withouse asked Vogt why she wasn’t allowed to bring a guest into City Hall when a sign on the door said aldermen could. She began recording the conversation, which was moved outside.

Withouse and Vogt continued to discuss the matter. 

Marshal Jerry Coborn walked by them and Withouse greeted him. Coborn later confirmed that he received a phone call about the incident from Mitchell, who was not at City Hall.

“Pudd called to say there might be an altercation at City Hall,” Coborn said later. “It was civil when I got there, so I just went about my business. Rebecca and Steve were outside talking. “

However, on May 9, Mitchell said he received calls from unnamed citizens that Withouse was “screaming and hollering.” The video and audio don’t indicate raised voices.

“I felt very, very threatened, unwelcome, especially knowing Mayor Mitchell had called the police about a disturbance, especially knowing we had gone outside for the conversation to not disturb the girls,” Withouse said after.

As Withouse and Vogt spoke outside of City Hall, Charro Reasor, city treasurer and office manager, and Sherree Burkholder said they couldn’t work under those conditions and left around 1 p.m. for the day.

Mitchell said on Friday that things would have been a lot different if he’d been in town on Thursday. 

“I feel threatened, yet again,” Withouse told Mitchell on Friday. “I feel you guys are violating my rights that I have. I was elected.”

Mitchell said Withouse is an alderperson and that’s it.

“You have no authority except to vote, and that’s it,” Mitchell said. “You have no right to come in here and tell these girls what they’re going to do and how they are going to do it.”

Withouse said she has never told the employees at City Hall what to do, that the two times she’s been at City Hall are both recorded because she feared accusations. She acknowledged that she joked with Reasor and Burkholder with air quotes that she was a supervisor, and said it was also recorded.

Withouse said she would follow all policies and ordinances that are in writing. Mitchell said not all polices are in writing.

The link to the May 8 discussion between Withouse and Vogt is available here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgoqQtLejUY&t=1355s

Below is the audio from when Belle Mayor James (Pudd) Mitchell spoke briefly with Alderman Rebecca Withouse and The Advocate on May 9 regarding an incident that occurred on May 8 at City Hall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJhA2680j8A