VIENNA — The Maries County Commission met with Coroner David Martin, Deputy Coroner Amanda Sandbothe and Coroner-elect Tom Tramel on Dec. 2 to discuss the future of the coroner’s office as it goes through a change in administration.

On Nov. 5, Maries County voters selected Tramel, a Republican, as coroner. He defeated Democratic incumbent Martin, who has served as the county’s coroner since 1976. The county commission met with Tramel and Sandbothe in the weeks after the election to discuss the details of the transition, but Monday’s meeting was the first time the current official and the outgoing official had discussed the office with each other.

Martin and Sandbothe arrived before Tramel to a crowded commission room that included Presiding Commissioner Victor Stratman, Western District Commissioner Ed Fagre, Western District Commissioner-elect Patrick Kleffner, County Clerk Rhonda Rodgers, Sheriff-elect Mark Morgan, Vienna Police Chief Shannon Thompson, Emergency Management Deputy Director Mike Elliott and Det. Brandon McDougal. Former sheriff candidate T.J. Halle and Eastern District Commissioner Doug Drewel would later join the meeting.

“I made the mistake of not transferring to a Republican,” Martin began. “I stayed Democrat out of respect to my grandpa for being presiding judge of Maries County back in the 20s and 30s. I wasn’t really flabbergasted (by the election), but it was different. We’re just here to speak a little on what can be done.”

Stratman began listing topics discussed in previous meetings, such as record storage and Martin purchasing the emergency lights the county bought for the vehicle he uses.

“I’m talking about I don’t think this person is qualified to serve in this office,” Martin said.

“We’ve discussed that,” Stratman said.

At the Nov. 27 meeting, Stratman read through some of the Missouri State Statutes related to the coroner’s office. For the first time in 48 years, the county is set to have a new coroner, and the commission has been reluctant to supply things for the office that it has not provided in the past, including a vehicle and facilities. While reading through the statutes, Stratman did not find any requirements for the county’s provision of equipment. He noted the written qualifications for the office: “No person shall be elected or appointed to the office of coroner unless he is a citizen of the United States over the age of 21 and shall have resided within the state one whole year and within the county for which he is elected six months.”

“I have 50 years of records; archives of the county,” Martin said. “I don’t let just anyone take them or see them. There’s so much confidential information there.”

Stratman said he expected the records could reside in the courthouse. Martin said there were two file cabinets that the county would need to unload.

Martin asked if anything could be done to remove Tramel as coroner if he was unqualified for the office.

“We’ve looked at the statute, and it doesn’t say much about qualifications, Dave,” Stratman said. “I don’t know that there’s anything that can be done unless he doesn’t perform his duty. It’s a new process. Nobody that I know of has dealt with a different coroner but you, and you were certainly qualified, and you’ve done a good job.”

Martin said the two years he spent working with Carl Birmingham, the coroner who preceded him, helped him when he took over the office after Birmingham’s death. He said he wished Tramel had called him and asked if the commission knew of any previous experience or equipment the coroner-elect had.

“(Tramel) doesn’t have any equipment, and I don’t think he has a driver’s license,” Stratman said.

The group discussed new coroner training scheduled for next week through the Missouri Coroners and Medical Examiners Association (MCMEA). Sandbothe said the training is mandatory for coroners to sign death certificates. If a coroner does not receive the certification, then a doctor must sign death certificates.

“It takes us two or three weeks sometimes on a natural death to get a doctor to sign a death certificate,” Sandbothe said. “They’re just too busy.”

Fagre recalled Tramel telling the commissioners that he would contact Martin to learn more about the office. Martin said he never received a call.

“If the commission thinks that my expenses are high, you wait until (Tramel) gets into office,” Martin said. “Because if he doesn’t know how to pronounce people, there’s going to be a multitude of autopsies.”

During the meeting, the commission received a letter from the University of Missouri’s Department of Pathology & Anatomical Sciences, which conducts autopsies for the county. The letter informed the commission that next year’s cost of an autopsy will remain the same at $2,600. External examinations with toxicology reports will be $1,400. Head-only examinations with toxicology reports will be $1,600. Toxicology reports only will be $500.

Martin also said the coroner must know how to draw blood in cases where drugs or alcohol could be contributing factors in death, such as traffic fatalities.

Sandbothe mentioned the disposal of prescription medication as another responsibility of the coroner. The office contracts a service to regularly dispose of prescriptions belonging to the deceased. In Maries County, the sheriff’s office collaborates with the coroner’s office to have medications left in the dropbox at the courthouse destroyed under the same contract. The new coroner would need to establish his own account along with a place to store the medications.

Another consideration Sandbothe mentioned is the recommended $100,000 personal liability insurance for coroners, along with the standard bonding that comes with elected officials.

Stratman asked Morgan about his feelings regarding the transition. Although the sheriff’s and coroner’s offices are separate, they both respond to death scenes. If the sheriff’s office were to become vacant by death or other means, the coroner would become the sheriff.

“I think everybody kind of shares the concerns,” Morgan said. “The problem is with all these additional requirements, the statute hasn’t really caught up with them.”

During the 2024 legislative session, state Rep. John Voss of Cape Girardeau introduced a bill to establish standards and requirements for Missouri coroners after the Cape Girardeau County coroner faced criminal charges alleging theft and lying on death certificates. The bill, which was referred in February to the House’s Elections and Elected Officials Committee, never saw a vote. If passed, it would require Missouri coroners to meet qualifications including equivalent certification levels of an EMT and specialized training in death investigations.

When Tramel arrived at the Dec. 2 commission meeting, Stratman asked if he had gotten familiar with the statutes applicable to the coroner’s office.

“Yes, I have,” Tramel replied. “Most of them. I’ve studied the statutes a fair amount. So far, that’s all I can tell you is the legal aspect of it.”

Stratman told Tramel that he would need to set up an account to dispose of medications. Tramel said it was on his agenda for the day.

Another priority Tramel mentioned was obtaining a list of the property owned by the coroner’s office and the office’s financial information for the last two years. Although the financial statements were not immediately available, Tramel said it would be fine if he had to wait a couple of days.

Martin said the coroner’s office did not own any property. The equipment he uses belongs to his funeral home. Sandbothe said it was only the aforementioned records and a radio.

Tramel asked if the county had an office space available for him.

“We never did have any,” Fagre said.

Tramel said he had been getting advice from coroners in nearby counties who had told him about facilities in Crawford County and Springfield where he could possibly take bodies if a local option was unavailable.

Sandbothe said she believed the Crawford County facility only took bodies on a case-by-case basis to avoid getting overwhelmed. Tramel said he understood and he planned to contact the coroner there for more information.

Fagre asked if Tramel knew how to draw blood.

“Yes, I can draw blood,” Tramel said. “I’ll just have to be certified.”

Tramel said he had heard about the upcoming MCMEA training but had not registered. Rodgers said the organization should have emailed his registration information.

Sandbothe said the training would cover death investigations, but it would not cover other essential skills for the office such as blood draws, eye fluid sampling, bone identification and teeth impressions.

“It’s a lot,” she said. “It’s not an easy task.”

“I have a couple of sources that are committed to helping me get going,” Tramel said.

“That’s good,” Sandbothe said. “You need a village for it. It’s not something that’s easy at all.”

Sandbothe mentioned case files tied to the coroner’s office. She said she and Martin are working on a few cases that will likely extend into the new year, so those investigations will remain with them rather than the office.

Tramel asked about a laptop and software. Stratman said MCMEA would let him know about any software needs. Then, he addressed a question to Tramel.

“Sir, can you drive?” Stratman asked. “What are your plans on the transport situation?”

“Well, I just mentioned that I have a couple people that are committed to helping me, including that, until I can get my vehicle,” Tramel said. “I have to get a vehicle. It may take a few weeks to do that.”

“Is that going to come at a cost to the county?” Sandbothe asked. “Are you paying those people to do that?”

“I’m not really sure about that,” Tramel said. “I initially thought that would be a county asset, but apparently it’s not all the time.”

“What about the people that you said are going to help you?” Rodgers asked. “How are they going to be paid?”

“To my knowledge, it was just to help me out for a while,” Tramel said. “He didn’t say anything about any kind of compensation.”

Kleffner asked if anyone assisting Tramel with his coroner duties would need to be bonded or insured.

“You’d at least have to have insurance if you’re transporting a deceased,” Sandbothe said. “Say it’s a friend or relative helping you, if they were involved in an accident, or they went to the scene and disturbed something, then that’s going to fall on them and also fall on you. That’s not going to fall on the county anymore because any coroner, any deputy coroner, has to be trained yearly. Not anybody can just go pick up a deceased.”

“I wouldn’t let them,” Tramel said.

“You would plan to accompany them when you perform that duty?” Stratman asked.

“Absolutely,” Tramel said.

Sandbothe asked if Tramel had a background in the medical field.

“How do you plan to determine if it was just a heart attack, or did they overdose?” she asked. “I’m not trying to overstep. I’m just wondering because that is part of it.”

“No, I don’t really have a medical background,” Tramel said. “But I’m a reasonably knowledgeable, intelligent person that learns very quickly, and that’s something I’ll have to learn with the training. And with the help that’s committed themselves, I can’t see too much of a problem.”

“It’s not something we learn in our three-day training,” Sandbothe said. “A fentanyl overdose can look like a heart attack. I understand that you’re going to be learning it, but what if it was a fentanyl overdose? Or that person was poisoned, and it’s turned into a homicide, and it’s not natural. There’s just so much.”

“Isn’t that where the testing comes in?” Tramel asked. “How do you know on the spot?”

“You have to be able to determine if it’s going to need testing or not,” Sandbothe said. “A lot of times, by doing examinations on the body and looking at the body, you can determine was it drug-related, was it a regular cause of death, their medications that they were on, things like that.”

“I’m certain the sheriff will be there 99 percent of the time that I am with their training,” Tramel said. “And the committed help that I have, I don’t think it will be too rough of a transition. It won’t be easy; I know that.”

Sandbothe said the sheriff and deputies are not typically medically trained.

“They have some experience,” Tramel said. “I would think in any death, the sheriff’s department would show up at some point in time.”

“They’re there at every single death,” Sandbothe said. “But they don’t give any comments or anything on causes of death. It’s a liability to them.”

“They would have some knowledge and experience to help me,” Tramel said. “I’m not asking them to come do my whole job.”

“I know there are requirements as far as autopsies in certain situations,” Stratman said. “Certainly, what you have to do you have to do. But doing autopsies costs us $2,500. The county can’t afford to do any more of them than we have to.”

Stratman asked if anyone had more questions.

“Are you absolutely positive that you want to pursue this?” Martin asked.

“I really do,” Tramel said.

“The coroner’s salary is minimal compared to others,” Martin said. “Don’t depend on the income.”

“I know,” Tramel said. “I couldn’t have done it until now just on that salary. Salary is secondary.”

Tramel also requested a phone dedicated to the coroner’s office and a 35-millimeter camera because he had concerns about how easy it is to alter digital images. Sandbothe recommended a digital camera for ease of connecting to the computer system. Stratman said they would hold off on making a decision about the camera until budget time.

Stratman invited Tramel, Martin and Sandbothe to attend Thursday’s commission meeting to meet with Prosecuting Attorney Tony Skouby to discuss some of the legalities of the coroner’s office. The commission meets at 9 a.m. in the room adjacent to the county clerk’s office on the main floor of the courthouse.